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Public Transport Liaison Panel
Tuesday, 21st June, 2016

Public Transport Liaison Panel Minutes

Date:
Tuesday 21st June 2016
Time:
9:30am
Place:
Community Space, Mint Walk, Croydon CR0 1EA
 

No Attendance Details available

Item Item/Resolution
MINUTES - PART A
A16/16 APPOINTMENT OF CHAIRMAN AND VICE-CHAIRMAN FOR THE ENSUING MUNICIPAL YEAR

Charlie King nominated Cllr Robert Canning for the position of Chair. The nomination was seconded by Cllr Pat Ryan.

 

Cllr Robert Canning nominated Cllr Pat Ryan for the position of Vice-Chair. The nomination was seconded by Charlie King.

 

Cllr Robert Canning and Cllr Pat Ryan were confirmed as PTLP Chair and Vice-Chair respectively.
 

A17/16 WELCOME, INTRODUCTIONS, APOLOGIES FOR ABSENCE AND DISCLOSURES OF PECUNIARY INTERESTS

Apologies were received from Cllr Chris Wright, Yvonne Leslie (Southern), Jason Tann (Go Ahead London) and Ian Plowright (Croydon Council).

 

Councillors confirmed that their disclosures of pecuniary interest were up to date.
 

A18/16 MINUTES OF THE MEETING HELD ON TUESDAY 23RD FEBRUARY 2016

The notes were signed as an accurate record with the following corrections in the third paragraph in item 05/16:

Panel members were advised that stations on the network had been categorised by the number of tickets sold at ticket offices:
1- 12 tickets per  hour or less
2- 20 tickets per  hour or less
3- More than 20 tickets an hour
 

A19/16 PRESENTATION BY NETWORK RAIL ON CURRENT PERFORMANCE AND FUTURE PLANS

The Network Rail representative explained that he would focus his presentation on plans for the upgrade of the Brighton Main Line.

He stated that the key problems that the upgrade would seek to tackle were:
- too many trains and not enough infrastructure
- strategic issues around the day to day management of services

 

Panel members heard that growth in demand was projected to affect the Brighton Main Line and the South West Main Line more than any other lines coming out of the capital, although capacity on the South-West Main Line was projected to be released through the Crossrail 2 project.

 

The Network Rail representative stated that Network Rail and Croydon Council had been working very closely to draw up plans to resolve overcrowding on the Brighton Main Line. Proposals would involve the reconfiguration of the area south of Selhurst and north of central Croydon, which would involve multiple bridges and flyovers. The geometry of platforms at East Croydon station was due to be changed significantly, with considerable improvements to accessibility.

 

Panel members requested that platforms be numbered from 1 to 8, and that names such as "platform -1" should be avoided for the sake of clarity.

Panel members also requested that Network Rail should minimise the need for bus replacement services during works. The representative of Network Rail agreed with this approach.


Changes in Norwood Junction were discussed. Panel members were informed that current proposals do not affect the station, only the tracks. However, it was explained that platform 7 would be brought back into use.

 

It was explained that platforms at this station were very narrow, which would make it difficult to put in a lift. A similar problem affected accessibility at South Croydon station. Council officers remarked that a solution had been found and implemented at Denmark Hill station. One approach suggested at the meeting was to have stopping services alighting at the wide platforms and fast services running through the narrow platforms.

 

Panel members asked when works at Norwood Junction and Selhurst would start impacting on local roads and were advised that there was not likely to be a major impact on the roads in the Norwood area, whereas the roads in the Selhurst area might have significant traffic congestion as a result of the works.

Panel members enquired whether the proposals took Gatwick expansion into account and were advised that peaks in commuter passenger numbers were infinitely higher than those of passengers travelling to and from Gatwick airport. .

 

The Chair concluded that:
- the detail of these proposals needed to be worked up to minimise possible disruption on the railways and on the roads.
- lack of accessibility at Norwood Junction, which was a long-standing issue, would need to be included in proposed plans
 

A20/16 UPDATE FROM TFL ON THE NEW MAYOR OF LONDON'S PLANS FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT, INCLUDING FARES (E.G. HOPPER BUS TICKETS AND THE NEW ONE HOUR BUS TRANSFER TICKET)

Panel members were advised that the Valerie Shawcross had been appointed as Deputy Mayor for Transport in view of her experience in this field and in transport accessibility issues.

 

Initial announcements on transport initiatives following the London Mayoral elections have included the following:
- News on the bus hopper ticket, with which two bus journeys could be made for the price of one within a specific time period - This will not be available, however, until a technical problem with Oyster has been resolved.
- A fare freeze on single zone fares
- A transport-led air quality consultation exercise, which will include expanding the London low Emission Zone beyond its current limits
 

A21/16 UPDATE ON ACTION THAT GTR IS TAKING TO RESOLVE CURRENT INDUSTRIAL ACTION AND ON DATE FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF NEW SIEMENS 700 UNITS

Panel members expressed their disappointment at the fact that the briefing provided by Southern did not include proposed solutions to the current industrial action. However, they stated that the introduction of the new Siemens trains was positive.

A22/16 BOOKING OFFICE CLOSURES AND RESULTS OF CONSULTATION

Panel members commented that the choice of South Croydon station as a pilot for the new ways of working was not a very good one. They also expressed concerns at the possible safety risks of paying for expensive tickets at machines in cash

A23/16 BOOKING OFFICE CLOSURES AND RESULTS OF CONSULTATION

Panel members were informed that the proposals in the paper were being examined by TfL's Network Development Officers, who were examining the transport needs of the area as a whole.

 

The 289 bus route was discussed. It was suggested that using double-deckers for this route would increase capacity. It was also suggested that the route be extended from Elmers End to Crystal Palace. It was also reported that 289 buses regularly turn round at the Colonnades in Purley Way instead of going all the way to Purley to keep delays down, at the expenses of passengers wishing to alight in Purley schools and town centre.
 

A24/16 UPDATE ON THE REBUILDING OF WEST CROYDON BUS STATION

Panel members were given a presentation on works to the bus station. Officers highlighted the following benefits of the refurbishment:
- Solutions to previous operational inefficiencies
- Increased capacity
- An improved passenger environment
- Greater clarity regarding stopping points for passengers
- A new retail element, linked to the local masterplan
 

Officers explained that the new station had been carefully designed to integrate with the West Croydon Masterplan and wider regeneration objectives. Officers confirmed that the retail unit's toilet facilities would not be open 24/7.
 

The bus station is due to reopen in end September 2016.


It was pointed out that Station Road was notoriously difficult to cross to get to West Croydon station, and a request was made to provide a safe crossing point. Panel members were advised that this had been looked at on a number of occasions over the years but that TfL had been somewhat intransigeant over this matter. Officers giving the presentation were happy to follow up this request but emphasised that there was no simple solution to this matter as Tramlink would not entertain any signalised crossing points in the area.

 

Officers gave assurances that a new journey map would be available providing information on the new West Croydon transport facilities.

A25/16 TEMPORARY STOPS DURING ROAD WORKS AND DIVERSIONS

The East Surrey Transport Committee representative gave examples of missing temporary bus stops and other issues affecting passengers on the 455, 466 and 405 bus routes. When he had contacted operators regarding these issues, typical answers given to him had included "it's never happened", "what you suggest is too dangerous", or "there are not enough resources for what you suggest". In addition, temporary bus stops had remained in some locations for three weeks after the end of road works.

 

Council officers also reported the lack of a temporary stop within a reasonable distance of Croydon University Hospital, the nearest one being in Thornton Heath.

 

The TfL representative apologised on behalf of his organisation and asked for any future problems to be reported to him. He stressed the need for more open communication channels to resolve these issues.

 

It was suggested that there needed to be agreement on how to locate set places for temporary bus stops in the long term to simplify processes.
 

A26/16 BUS RELIABILITY AND PURLEY OAKS RECYCLING CENTRE

Panel members were advised that Surrey County Council had closed down their recycling centres, putting a great deal more pressure on facilities in South Croydon. Traffic congestion has been further exacerbated by the occasional need to close the centre during the day to move or empty recycling bins. This had had an impact on traffic and bus punctuality in the area. with a particularly detrimental effect on the 412 route. It was explained that a box junction had been introduced at the entrance to the recycling centre to keep that area clear of stationary cars. Council officers undertook to ascertain what additional measures could be taken to improve the situation.

A27/16 TERMINAL ARRANGEMENTS AT PURLEY FOR ROUTE 412

Panel members were advised that Arriva has successfully tested a possible solution but that it has not yet been implemented.

A28/16 ISSUES AFFECTING THE 410 BUS ROUTE INCLUDING SERVICE REGULARITY, OVERCROWDING AND RENAMING OF PRIORY SCHOOL BUS STOP IN TENNISON ROAD AS "BECKMEAD COLLEGE"

Panel members agreed that the suggestion to rename the bus stop was sensible to reflect local changes.

 

The need to increase capacity on the 410 bus route was highlighted in view of the new school and forthcoming new housing developments in the area. It was suggested that using double-deckers on this route could help, although this would cause traffic congestion on Davidson Road, which was narrow and lined with parked cars. Moreover, it was felt that additional buses should be put into service at the beginning and end of school days, when congestion was particularly bad.

 

The TfL representative pointed out that the 410 bus route was currently under review. He added that schools were supposed to make financial contributions towards the running of relevant bus services and that discussions needed to take place with these establishments to agree future contributions.

Council officers remarked that the Council needed to be proactive in securing funding for additional buses for areas benefiting from new schools or housing developments. In the case of free schools, it was suggested that TfL might obtain central government funding for additional services.
 

A29/16 SUGGESTION TO ADD A "RAISED TABLE" ON THE ROAD BY MAYDAY BUS STOP

Council officers enquired what was the exact location where it was suggested that the raised table should be built. It was also observed that a raised table might cause problems for ambulances. It was suggested that local area accessibility funding might be used if the project was approved.

A30/16 ANY OTHER BUSINESS

Panel members discussed build-outs. It was observed that TfL were reluctant to use build-outs where there was a parking issue as they took up about one and a half parking spaces. However, it was pointed out that they were somewhat smaller than a full bus parking space. Council officers undertook to present the case for build-outs in appropriate locations with highways staff.

A31/16 ITEMS FOR NEXT MEETING

The following items were suggested:
- The bus stop accessibility programme
- Update on the new Mayor of London's plans for public transport
- Update on the upgrade of the Brighton Main Line
 

A32/16 DATES OF FUTURE MEETINGS
MINUTES - PART B
  None