Agenda and minutes

Public Transport Liaison Panel
Tuesday, 16th October, 2018 2.00 pm

Venue: Council Chamber, Town Hall, Katharine Street, Croydon CR0 1NX. View directions

Contact: Thomas Downs
02087266000 x86166  Email:

No. Item



To invite all attendees to introduce themselves.


The Chair welcomed participants to the meeting and those present introduced themselves.


Disclosures of interests

In accordance with the Council’s Code of Conduct and the statutory provisions of the Localism Act, Members and co-opted Members of the Council are reminded that it is a requirement to register disclosable pecuniary interests (DPIs) and gifts and hospitality to the value of which exceeds £50 or multiple gifts and/or instances of hospitality with a cumulative value of £50 or more when received from a single donor within a rolling twelve month period. In addition, Members and co-opted Members are reminded that unless their disclosable pecuniary interest is registered on the register of interests or is the subject of a pending notification to the Monitoring Officer, they are required to disclose those disclosable pecuniary interests at the meeting. This should be done by completing the Disclosure of Interest form and handing it to the Democratic Services representative at the start of the meeting. The Chair will then invite Members to make their disclosure orally at the commencement of Agenda item 3. Completed disclosure forms will be provided to the Monitoring Officer for inclusion on the Register of Members’ Interests.



There were none.


Minutes of the previous meeting pdf icon PDF 103 KB

To approve the minutes of the meeting held on 20 June 2018 as an accurate record.


The minutes of the meeting held on 20 June 2018 were agreed as an accurate record.


Any other business

To consider any other business at the Chair’s discretion.


There was none.


Growth Zone Update

Nadine Knight

(Stakeholder Engagement Manager)


Alex Pocklington

(Principal Impact Assessment Engineer, Economic Growth)



The Stakeholder Engagement Manager gave an update to the Panel on the Croydon Growth Zone, beginning with the pedestrianisation of the High Street. The officer summarised that the pedestrianisation had been implemented in September 2017 as a 12 month trial. During the course of this time stakeholders had been engaged in working out any issues that had arisen. A minimal number of complaints had been received from residents, and no complaints had been received from Transport for London (TfL) or the Greater London Authority (GLA).


The Panel learned that a report was being written to assess the success of the trial and to decide the future of the scheme. The report would also consider over 40 activities which had taken place on the pedestrianised High Street, and which had received good attendance.


The representative from the Mobility Forum raised concern that where bus stops had been moved to accommodate the road closure, stops for the same route in opposite directions were no longer opposite in the surrounding streets, which could be confusing for some residents as well as people not familiar with the Town Centre. The officer noted the point and agreed to feed this back to the council.


The Chair requested confirmation that the pedestrianisation of the High Street was a pilot scheme, and the officer confirmed that it would be until April 2019, but the decision on whether the scheme would be permanently implemented would be taken in February 2019. The officer also informed the Panel that the placement of surrounding bus stops would be revisited.




a)    Bus services in the Town Centre

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


b)   412 Bus Service Cuts

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


c)    Diversion of Bus Route 130

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


d)   410 Capacity Issues along Davidson Road

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


e)    468 Service Reduction

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


f)     Thornton Heath bus garage(Update)

Richard Simmons (Arriva London)

Nick Bland (Arriva London)



a)      Bus services in the Town Centre


The representative of the Mobility Forum began this item with a discussion of planned changes to the 75 bus by TfL, with the bus no longer stopping at Fairfield Halls, and instead stopping at West Croydon Bus Station from April 2019. The representative was concerned about residents who had formerly used this bus to access the Fairfield Halls, Croydon College and East Croydon. The representative also queried where coaches park when Fairfield Halls reopened, and suggested the possibility of using College Road.


The Head of Transport shared concerns over the 75 bus and informed the Panel that the council was in discussions with TfL to minimise the impact of bus route changes as redevelopment in the Town Centre progressed. The officer also explained that the council was conscious of the current lack of viable coach parking, but confirmed that several sites were being considered to accommodate this.


The TfL representative informed the Panel that work on the Croydon Bus Consultation had begun, but that it had not yet reached the stage of public consultation. The Panel were told that this would begin in Mid-November 2018 and that both the Chair and Head of Transport had been engaged as part of the process. The representative highlighted that the Consultation was looking to meet future demand, and looked at the idea of terminating buses on either side of the Town Centre. The buses being considered for changes were the 50, 75, 109, 154, 197, 250, 264, 403, 405, 412 and 433.


The Chair enquired as to whether TfL had looked into the accessibility for certain passengers who may need to transfer across the Town Centre, such as students and those visiting Croydon University Hospital. The Chair also asked about the commercial viability of the proposed changes, and whether this would increase or decrease ridership across different routes. The Panel heard that TfL were still looking at how best to maintain hospital access and that it was eager to hear public views; the representative agreed that they would take back the question about commercial viability to TfL.


The Head of Transport agreed broadly with the TfL representative, acknowledging the rationale behind the TfL propositions. The officer added that only a small number of passengers would need to make interchanges across the Town Centre, and that this could be revisited following the completion of works on Wellesley Road.


The East Surrey Transport Committee representative submitted a document to the Chair outlining proposed amended bus services for the Town Centre during the planned redevelopment works.


The Chair queried if there was an opportunity for greater public realm with the absence of buses across the Town Centre; the officer responded that this would largely be delivered by the construction of the East-West walk by Westfield, but that cars were the greatest barrier to increased public realm.


The Mobility Forum representative raised concerns about the planned closure of the subway under Wellesley Road that linked directly to the Whitgift Centre.  ...  view the full minutes text for item 34/18



a)    Timetable Update & Winter Timetable Update

Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway)


b)   Off-peak services

Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway)


c)    Gatwick Service from Purley

Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway)


d)   East Croydon to Blackfriars and St Pancras Service Increase

Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway)


e)    Access for All – West Croydon, Norwood Junction, Reedham & Waddon

Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway)

Sam Russell (London Overground Rail Operations Limited)


f)     London Overground Performance Update

Michelle Wildish (Transport for London)


a)      Timetable Update & Winter Timetable Update


The Govia Thameslink Railway representative began by updating the Panel on the Summer timetable, which had had the best performance since the start of the Southern contract for the end of the period. It was explained that were no additional timetable changes planned until the next national timetable change.


For Thameslink and Great Northern, the interim timetable had been introduced from the 15 July 2018; more services had been running, but still not at the level that had been proposed in the initial timetable. The Panel were informed that 85% of trains had been running within five minutes of scheduled times and that most peak services had been reintroduced during September 2018.


The representative elaborated that there were no big changes planned for the Winter timetable and that services would carry on being introduced with the aim of meeting the original timetable. It was further stated that the PDF of the timetable would be available at the end of October 2018.


Action Point – forGovia Thameslink Railway to report back on the progress of reintroducing services to meet the full timetable.



b)      Off-peak services


The Govia Thameslink Railway representative explained that off-peak services were being slowly reintroduced, but that peak services had been the priority.


Both the Head of Transport and the Mobility Forum representative raised concerns regarding trains running through Norwood Junction; the Govia Thameslink Railway representative answered that if services were not on the base timetable, they may be still be added.


Action Point – forGovia Thameslink Railway to report back on the progress of reintroduction of off-peak services.



c)      Gatwick Service from Purley


The Govia Thameslink Railway representative informed the Panel that this service had only been removed as part of the interim timetable and would be reintroduced.



d)      East Croydon to Blackfriars and St Pancras Service Increase


The Govia Thameslink Railway representative informed the Panel that this service had only decreased as part of the interim timetable and would be increased starting with peak services and then moving to off-peak services.



e)      Access for All – West Croydon, Norwood Junction, Reedham & Waddon


The Govia Thameslink Railway representative informed the Panel that assessments were being done on all of their stations based on the criteria from the Department for Transport (DfT) and Network Rail in order to prioritise the stations most in need. The Head of Transport thanked the representative for engaging the Council in this process; it was also noted that TfL had not done this and no Croydon stations had featured on their list of priorities despite having worked closely together over West Croydon Station.


The TfL representative explained that West Croydon Station was not a priority for TfL as there were stations on their network with zero step free access. It was also stated that Norwood Junction had not been considered as implementing step free access was not considered feasible, but that the bid was still in draft form and had not yet been submitted to  ...  view the full minutes text for item 35/18


Trams pdf icon PDF 2 MB

a)    Tram Operations Limited - Safety and Ops Directors Report

Jackie Townsend (First Group)


b)    Elmers End Branch – Second Platform

Mark Davis (London Trams)


a)     Tram Operations Limited - Safety and Ops Directors Report


The London Trams representative outlined some points from the report highlighting the focus on reducing delays, especially those of 20 minutes and longer. A car accident on the 3 October 2018 which had blocked tracks and firefighting equipment blocking the tracks on 8 October 2018 (when there had been a fire on George Street) had both caused significant delays. The representative explained this had shown that there was work to be done engaging with the Metropolitan Police and the Fire Brigade to avoid repeated instances.


Customer satisfaction had been good, with a one percent drop in performance down to 90%; feedback had been that this was due to poor cleanliness on trams and at stops, as well as unreliable air conditioning in the summer. The representative informed the Panel that both of these issues were now being looked into, and that checks were being undertaken on heating systems before the winter began. In contrast to this, there had been the lowest number of complaints for the period since records began.


The Panel also heard that driver vigilance devices had been added to all trams which ensured drivers were paying attention and not sleeping. Work was being done to secure auto-braking systems to all trams, but this had not yet been achieved.


The Mobility Forum representative suggested information should be displayed at tram stops, in a similar style to underground maps, to help users better navigate the service. The London Trams representative agreed and explained that a review of posters and signage had already been launched, with new signage planned by the end of the year.


The Head of Transport identified that a recent Scrutiny Recommendation, which had passed though Cabinet, stated that:


“That Croydon Council ensure that it holds to account Tram and Bus Operators on their safety measures.”


The Officer asked who at TfL would be best to write to on the matter and it was identified to be Jill Collis by the London Trams representative, but also that they would be happy to do it themselves.


Action Point – forTfL and the relevant operators to report back annually on Bus and Tram safety.



b)     Elmers End Branch – Second Platform


The London Trams representative informed the Panel that an extra track would be added to Elmers End tram stop, which would improve the whole network by speeding up journeys, improving capacity and increasing reliability. The Panel learned the works would start at the beginning of 2019.




Items for next meeting

To suggest items to be discussed at the next meeting of the panel.


The Chair invited the Panel to submit any items they would like discussed before the Agenda deadline for the next meeting.


Dates of future meetings

- 27 February 2018


26 February 2019