Agenda and minutes

Public Transport Liaison Panel - Wednesday, 20th June, 2018 9.30 am

Venue: Council Chamber, Town Hall, Katharine Street, Croydon CR0 1NX. View directions

Contact: Kieran Pantry-Melsom
02087266000 x63922  Email:

No. Item


Appointment of Chair and Vice-Chair

To appoint a Chair and Vice-Chair for the Public Transport Liaison Panel for the 2018/19 municipal year.


Councillor Degrads nominated and Councillor Parker seconded the motion to appoint Councillor Muhammad Ali as Chair for the remainder of the 2018/19 municipal year.


Councillor Ali nominated and Councillor Parker seconded Councillor Nina Degrads to be Vice-Chairfor the remainder of the 2018/19 municipal year.




To invite all attendees to introduce themselves.


The Chair welcomed participants to the meeting and those present introduced themselves.


Apologies for Absence


Apologies were received from Ben Kennedy and Ian Plowright for lateness.


Disclosures of interests

In accordance with the Council’s Code of Conduct and the statutory provisions of the Localism Act, Members and co-opted Members of the Council are reminded that it is a requirement to register disclosable pecuniary interests (DPIs) and gifts and hospitality to the value of which exceeds £50 or multiple gifts and/or instances of hospitality with a cumulative value of £50 or more when received from a single donor within a rolling twelve month period. In addition, Members and co-opted Members are reminded that unless their disclosable pecuniary interest is registered on the register of interests or is the subject of a pending notification to the Monitoring Officer, they are required to disclose those disclosable pecuniary interests at the meeting. This should be done by completing the Disclosure of Interest form and handing it to the Democratic Services representative at the start of the meeting. The Chair will then invite Members to make their disclosure orally at the commencement of Agenda item 3. Completed disclosure forms will be provided to the Monitoring Officer for inclusion on the Register of Members’ Interests.



Councillor Muhammad Ali declared a non-pecuniary interest in that he was an employee of Transport for London (TfL). The Councillor noted that he remained of a neutral mind and would take part in a consideration of the reports.


Minutes of the previous meeting pdf icon PDF 105 KB

To approve the minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 27 February 2018 as an accurate record.


The minutes of the meeting held on 27 February 2018 were agreed as an accurate record.


Mayor's Transport Strategy

Report from Muhammed Mashud (TfL)


Muhammad Mashud informed the Panel that there was no update to present.


Bus Issues

A)   TfL Bus review 2018 (Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


B)   Minimising noise at Thornton Heath bus garage

(update from Councillor B Khan)


C)   Bus issues in Norbury (Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


D)   Capacity of Bus Route 166 (Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


E)   Capacity of Bus Routes 434, 463 & 633 (Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


F)   Diversion of Bus Route 130 – New Addington

(Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


G)   Bus Access to Heathrow (Muhammed Mashud, TfL)



A)   TfL Bus Review, 2018


Muhammed Mashud (Transport for London) informed the Panel that the 2018 Bus Review was looking to integrate with the planned changes to the town centre alongside the arrival of Westfield, but that it also examined routes on a Borough wide basis.


The Chair inquired as to if a timeline had been agreed for the review, and as to whether any specific capacity increases had been decided. The representative for TfL stated that while no specifics had yet been announced, the review aimed to increase capacity where there was demand for it in order to serve the whole of the town centre.


The representative went on to discuss specific work that had been carried out on overcrowding on the 463 route, collaborating with a Ward Member and two local Schools. The Panel was told that through work with School Ambassadors and projects to encourage cycling, this had been resolved without necessitating changes to the 463 service.


Charles King (East Surrey Transport Committee) stated that papers had been agreed at the Mobility Forum with recommendations such as improving access to Croydon University Hospital and the High Street and resolving the lack of Bus routes from the East of the Borough stopping at Fairfield Halls. The Officer assured the Panel that these papers had been fed back to TfL, and that it had been agreed that there would be at least one bus route servicing Fairfield Halls from the East.


It was also expressed to the Panel that there were long waiting times for the 109 bus on London Road. A panel member suggested that if some buses from Croydon University Hospital stopped at the Streatham Bus Garage before stopping at Streatham Station on their routes, it would increase ease of access to Central London. The Chair noted that both of these would be included within the Bus Review. The Officer also noted that all previously raised and unaddressed concerns would be collated and sent to TfL to feed into the review.


There was also a query as to whether the TfL Bus Review would address accidents on buses and the frequently large gap between the curb and the bus entrance. The Chair asked whether any driver training was planned or had already taken place around these issues. The Arriva London representative informed the Panel that there was ongoing training on both issues.


Action Point – for TfL to update the Panel with new information on the Bus Review when it becomes available.



B)   Minimising Noise at Thornton Heath Bus Garage


The Chair noted that there had been noise complaints at Thornton Heath Bus Garage which had been discussed in past PTLP meetings and asked what had been done to address these issues.


The representative of Arriva London explained to the Panel that he had met with Councillor Khan and Lindsay Williams (Resident) and that this discussion had led to the implementation of marshals at the Garage, and that this had since been applied to all bus shelters  ...  view the full minutes text for item 22/18


Train/Railway issues

A)   GTR May 2018 Timetable Changes (Yvonne Leslie, GTR)


B)   West Croydon: Transfer of Overground Services

(Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


C)   Crystal Palace Stadium: Impact on services

(Muhammed Mashud, TfL)


D)   Cashless Trams & Hopper Fares (Ian Plowright, Croydon Council)


E)   Upgrading of Ticket machines (Yvonne, Leslie, GTR)


F)   Train Station Skipping Update (Yvonne Leslie, GTR)








A)    GTR May 2018 Timetable Changes


The Chair highlighted to the panel the public concern felt after the introduction of the new timetable and the large number of delayed and cancelled trains.


Yvonne Leslie (Govia Thameslink Railway) informed the Panel that the changes had been made to increase capacity, particularly in the South East. Yvonne stated that GTR believed the changes with Southern had been successful, but acknowledged that there had been significant problems with Thameslink and Great Northern. This was caused by delays in writing the timetable which meant three months’ worth of work had to be condensed into a three week period so as to be ready for the timetable change deadline, which was bi-annual. The problems following from this were that certain incorrect assumptions had been made around driver placement and staffing.


The Chair enquired as to why this had happened, given that the timetable had been in consultation for two years, and asked how long it would take for the issues to be fixed. The GTR representative replied by stating that the logistical work had to be done in the final months so as to be current. The timeline for fixing the issues stemming from the change was not yet agreed, but trains would be removed to ease the overall network until July, when a temporary timetable would be issued. Until the temporary timetable some services would receive bus replacements where cancellations had been particularly high.


A member of the panel stated that the Southern delays and cancellations had been just as bad as the other networks, and that no substitutions had been implemented despite early knowledge of which trains would be cancelled. It was also raised that trains running through stations where cancellations were particularly bad had not been making additional stops.


It was also said that receiving timetable updates was difficult for people without internet access. The GTR representative agreed that it had been hard to produce a hard copy of the timetable due to frequent changes, but that the information was also available in stations, and by phone or email.


Action point – for Yvonne to report back to the Panel when the timeline for fixing the timetable has been agreed.



B)  West Croydon: Transfer of Overground Services


The TfL representative informed the Panel that TfL had worked with Arriva and the Council on the signage to indicate how to transfer between the Overground and local operators, as well as installing a buzzer to allow disabled access through the carpark.

The Chair asked whether an impact assessment had been carried out before the platforms had been changed, as the buzzer for the disabled access can take a long time before an ambassador arrives to open the gate, and the carpark afterwards can be difficult to navigate.


A member of the panel added that additional signage to the front of the station could be used to make changing between the Overground clearer. The TfL representative agreed this would be possible, but as the building  ...  view the full minutes text for item 23/18


Growth Zone Update

Report from Nadine Knight (Stakeholder Engagement Manager)


In the absence of Nadine Knight the panel RESOLVED that this item be presented at the next PTLP meeting (Tuesday 16 October 2018).


Update on replacement of Blackhorse Lane and Addiscombe Park bridges

Report from Olaniyi Denloye (TfL)


Olaniyi Denloye (Transport for London) updated the Panel on the status of the bridge replacement project.


The Panel was informed that this was a joint project as the bridge in the South was owned by TfL, whilst the bridge in the North was owned by the Council. The Panel learned that investigations into utility lines on the intended construction sites (including digs) had been completed, and that these, in addition to maintaining access for pedestrians and for the Tram way, would be the biggest challenges for the construction phase.


The TfL representative stated that the design phase of the project had almost been completed, but that no firm date for the beginning of construction had yet been agreed. The Panel learned that despite this it was hoped that construction would begin by early 2019.


Action point: For TfL to update the panel with the construction timeline once agreed.





Any other business

To consider any other business at the Chair’s discretion.


Olaniyi Denloye invited the Panel to attend the “Great Get Together” organised by MP Sarah Jones at 43 Blackhorse Lane on 22 June 2018. Olaniyi informed the Panel that Engineers from Morgan Sindall and Transport for London would be there provide additional information on Blackhorse Lane Bridge and ongoing works.



Dates of future meetings

·         Tuesday 16 October 2018

·         Tuesday 26 February 2019


·         16 October 2018

·         26 February 2019



Items for next meeting

To suggest items to be discussed at the next meeting of the panel.


The Chair invited the Panel to submit any items they would like discussed before the Agenda deadline for the next meeting.


It was NOTED earlier in the meeting that Item 9 – Growth Zone Update be presented at the next meeting.